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Saturday, July 28, 2012

Nerf N-Strike Elite Retaliator - Mod Guide!

This Mod Guide will cover performance mods for the Nerf Retaliator.

Mods covered:
- Air Restrictor (AR) Removal
- Spring Replacement
- Locks Removal

Note: These mods are also applicable to the Nerf Rampage as they both share similar internal bolt and plunger mechanisms.

Disclaimer: Modify at your own risk. Modifications may wear out or damage your blaster. Please be careful when using hobby tools!


:: AR Removal ::

Step 1: Disassemble your Retaliator. Make sure to remove all the screws before detaching the casing.



Step 2: Take out the bolt sled assembly. Disassemble the plunger mechanism components and remove the plunger casing from the bolt system.


This is what the bolt looks like with the air restrictors still intact.



Step 3: Use a long screwdriver and a hammer, carefully knock out the air restrictor assembly though the back of the bolt.


You can also use other tools (ie. power drills) to remove the air restrictors too. Just be careful not to damage the bolt in the process.

This is what the bolt looks like with the air restrictors removed.


At this point in the process, you will probably notice that a leftover part of the air restrictor (the 3 pronged piece) is still inside the bolt, and it will tend to rattle loosely back and forth. Simply apply a drop of glue inside the rear section of the bolt and let that loose piece adhere to the back so that it doesn't move anymore.


:: Spring Replacement ::

One of the ways to increase the speed of air delivery through the bolt is to replace the stock spring with a stronger aftermarket spring.

There are many different springs with different sizes and spring force ratings. Spring choice will depend on your usage.

This example below shows a stock spring (top photo) vs. an aftermarket 8kg load spring (bottom photo).


Notice that the stronger aftermarket spring i use is made shorter than the stock spring, this is because the spring wire is thicker, hence it takes up more space when compressed.

The reduction in spring length allows the plunger system to accommodate the extra space required by the aftermarket spring (or else the plunger will not be able to catch properly).

Note that when using shorter aftermarket springs, the bolt lock should also be removed to ensure that the bolt does not get stuck during usage (see below for more information on bolt lock removal).

Here is what they look like installed within the plunger system.


Note that in this plunger design, the spring has to be kept within the catch system dimensions to work.


:: Special Notes ::

Generally for blasters with air restrictors removed, padding is usually recommended to be installed on the plunger. This is because without the AR, there is no air buffering system to cushion the plunger on bolt impact.

But in the Retaliator plunger system, the plunger itself features a narrowed internal area at the front section, this creates a sort of "buffer" effect and prevents the plunger from striking the bolt.


During modding tests, it turns out that plunger padding wasn't necessary in this blaster. Even without any plunger padding, when the blaster was fired, there was only a muffled impact sound (instead of the loud cracking noise common in previous blaster designs).

In addition, the stock o-ring  already has an excellent seal, so there was no need to replace it. Note that if the plunger seal is too tight, it may create excessive resistance and slow down the plunger, resulting in noticeably reduced performance.


:: Locks Removal ::

Remove the bolt and trigger locks. This is an optional modding step, but it is highly recommended (especially in blasters with air restrictors removed and using shorter aftermarket springs).


With the locks removed, it allows users to be able to release a primed blaster in a controlled manner. This is more convenient than having to fire an extra shot just to de-prime the blaster and helps prevent dry firing.

The user can simply push back the bolt anytime, pull the trigger to release the catch, then ease the plunger forward under support with the priming grip.

In addition, as mentioned earlier, the bolt lock removal mod is also required when using shorter aftermarket springs, to ensure that the bolt does not get stuck during usage.

Important Note: With the bolt and trigger locks removed, users have to ensure that the bolt sled is pushed all the way forward before firing (do not fire when the breech is partially or fully open).

For additional reference, here is the bolt lock removal procedure for the Nerf Rampage (photo shows the left side of the Rampage casing):



:: Final Step ::

Assemble everything back together and its all done!



:: Modified Nerf N-Strike Elite Retaliator - Range Test Video ::




:: Sample Test Fire Data ::

PTG: Parallel-To-Ground (Shoulder height, no elevation)
ATG: Angled-To-Ground (Aimed higher, 30 degrees elevation)

Distance is measured at where the dart lands (Average of 6 darts).

Stock Elite Retaliator
Ammo: Elite foam darts
PTG = 45-55ft
ATG = 65-75ft

Modified Elite Retaliator (AR Removed Only)
Ammo: Customized foam darts + 1.0 gram soft silicone tip weight
PTG = 55-65ft
ATG = 75-85ft

Modified Elite Retaliator (AR Removed + 8kg Load Spring)
Ammo: Customized foam darts + 1.0 gram soft silicone tip weight
PTG = 70-80ft
ATG = 90-100ft

Note that Elite foam darts can achieve similar ranges too, but their overall performance and accuracy tend to be rather erratic when used in modded blasters (ie. they still curve and swerve in flight), so their results are less consistent.

The tests were done under controlled conditions and the results are sample estimates for reference (your results may differ depending on materials and mod techniques used).


:: Additional Notes ::

For modding reference, i've also tested the brass breech mod on one of my other Retaliator units and its ranges improved further by another 10-15ft. 

Note that although an improved breech system with 100% air seal does help increase power efficiency and range, the overall performance improvements are still based on their existing plunger air volumes (compared to larger direct plunger blasters like Longshots or Stampedes).


:: Modding Materials ::

For modders who are keen on aftermarket springs for modding the Retaliator or Rampage, here is the Elite Retaliator/Rampage Mod Upgrade Spring available for online purchase.

To use this aftermarket spring, please take note of the following:

- Although this spring will initially be a tight fit on the plunger rod, when it compresses it will widen slightly for smooth plunger movement, this is designed so that the stronger spring is still kept within the catch and plunger space perimeters during compression for reliable blaster operation.

- The bolt lock MUST be removed for the blaster to work properly with this spring (otherwise the bolt will get stuck and cannot be primed).

- This spring is compatible with both the Retaliator and Rampage.

- For Rampage users, the metal priming bar connecting the pump action grip and the bolt sled on some units may bend slightly due to the heavier spring load, therefore this could cause the plunger not to catch by just 1-2mm. The solution is to either apply a layer of foam padding on the plunger head as a spacer or epoxy the priming bar to make it stiffer. Another alternative is to cut a ring of PVC pipe and epoxy it to the back of the bolt as a spacer too. These various methods will help to add abit more distance to the plunger rod moving backwards to enable it to catch properly.

- Update! This aftermarket spring now comes in a shiny silver color (instead of dark metal).
 

Elite Retaliator/Rampage Mod Upgrade Spring

Ordering Information:

- The international postage and packaging is set at a flat USD$5.00, regardless of spring quantity, therefore it is worth ordering more springs at one go to save on overall postage. :)

- Combined orders with other kits or springs are also possible too, just place the orders together and the excess postage will be refunded back to your PayPal account.

170 comments:

  1. I would love to see your b-breach for this ;) and props on posting the best guide out there for this blaster (and many others)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wanna-be,

      Thanks!

      Btw, i've already done a brass breech to test on one of my units and it gets another 10-15ft further range. Will see if i can do up another one to make a guide for that.

      I guess an improved breech system does help increase range, but its still limited by the existing air volume. So its a matter of deciding if the modding effort or cost of parts is worth the incremental performance increase.

      Delete
    2. Are you singaporian? I didn't uderstand about brass breech, can you show me how to make my retaliator better?

      Delete
  2. Any chrono data?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I did a quick fps test on a Shooting Chrony and it got around 100-120 fps... relatively common for blasters in that range band.

      Delete
  3. If the slow-down buffer on the inside of the PT was sanded away, and padding was added to the plunger head, would there be any range increase due to the plunger moving faster through that area?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. goodatthis,

      Well, the narrower section seems to be only 2-3mm of space so i guess if you manage to sand it down accurately to still maintain a seal, it'll allow the plunger to travel further by abit... though then you'll have to put plunger padding to absorb the impact of it hitting the back of the bolt.

      The padding will take up some plunger space too, so the overall benefits might be mitigated or reduced.

      I guess you can test and see if it works. Do post up your findings if you do manage to try out that mod. :)

      Delete
    2. I have a great idea! If OMW makes an elite kit they can have a non-tapered PT for max upgrading! Awesome!

      Delete
  4. I have a 5kg load spring from a reverse plunger Recon, I knew they fit into the Longshot but will they fit in this? Also would it allow me to double on the springs?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Unfortunately, the springs from reverse plunger blasters are much too wide to fit in the Retaliator's direct plunger system.

      Its also not advisable to use multiple springs on the its plunger system because there is very limited catch clearance and compression space for the spring to operate in.

      Delete
    2. Well I just picked up a Rampage after a hard debate and I love it!!! Can't wait to get one of those springs

      Delete
  5. mabye u should still put padding but not the entire space to make up for the dead space of the tube.

    Also do u think this new tube design will age faster than the old one due to pressure on the tube mushrooming or does ti feel pretty ok under the spring load.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Perhaps... though i guess the deadspace filler/padding also can't be too thick or it might block the bolt moving back fully for the breech to fit the clips and foam darts properly.

      So far with my current modded setup, it has been working well without any issues. The new system seems alot more hardy than the older reverse plunger design. :)

      Delete
  6. Will it be possible to buy these springs online thorugh the forum or through black tactical?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I'm getting a batch of them made soon, and will be posting the ordering link in this guide and at the NerfSG forum too.

      Stay tuned for it. :)

      Delete
  7. I'm curious how much of the performance is the blaster and how much is the dart. Would you be able to do a range test with a modded retaliator, and both stock elite and stock streamline darts? And then compare that to a modded say, Raider, with both stock elite and stock streamlines? Long story short, I'm wondering if I'd be better off simply buying elite darts to use in my already modded blasters, or if this new direct plunger system warrants buying (and modding) a new blaster.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I would say its performance is generated by a ratio of around 80% from the blaster's new direct plunger system and 20% from the Elite foam darts.

      If you use the Elite foam darts in non-Elite stock N-Strike blasters, you can usually see a 20-30% increase in ranges due to the lighter and more balanced dart design... but they'd still not get Elite blaster ranges just by using Elite foam darts.

      Btw, Elite foam darts are okay for stock blasters, but when used in modded blasters they will still swerve and curve in flight (just less severely than with streamlines). Its still better to use custom calibrated foam darts with modded blasters for consistency and accuracy.

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the reply :)
      Quick follow up then. Because of the new plunger system, would you see a marked increase in performance from a modded elite compare to a modded regular n-strike? Say, a rampage vs. raider.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      Yes, the Elite blasters will get noticeably more power and range with equivalent mods, because they use the direct plunger system which is more efficient... compared to the less efficient reverse plunger systems in the older N-Strike blaster models.

      Delete
  8. what are the ranges of it w/o ars and w/ 8kg spring using elite darts

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Iron Archer,

      The modded ranges with Elite foam darts are similar to calibrated foam darts, but Elite foam darts tend to swerve and fishtail in flight (even more so when used in modded blasters), so their consistency and accuracy is still not reliable enough for actual Nerf games... hence i prefer to use calibrated foam darts or stefans instead for modded blasters.

      Delete
    2. So with your custom darts, is there a reference on how to make the ones you used for this mod do we can duplicate it for better accuracy?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      Well, the calibration i do for those foam darts in my range test are based on custom made 1.3-1.5 gram black silicone tips (sourced from inform3r at the OzNerf forum) which are further trimmed at the tip and tails to reduce their weight to around 1.0 grams (to match the modded Retaliator power) then glued to the foam, with an additional piece of padding at the tip for safety.

      There are many ways to customize foam darts for better balance and accuracy... if you don't have access to custom silicone tips, you can also try other methods like using rubber sticks as tip weight, as shown in my guides:

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/08/custom-calibrated-foam-darts-conversion.html

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/10/custom-weighted-foam-dart-tip-seal.html

      Its all a matter of testing various combinations and finding the best setup to suit your specific modded blasters.

      Delete
  9. Do you have a guide for the darts as well that you use, along with anything regarding the clip if you have to modify that too?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      The clips in this setup are not required to be modded, as the blaster is still using the stock breech system and normal length foam darts.

      The calibration i do for those foam darts in my range test are based on custom made 1.3-1.5 gram black silicone tips (sourced from inform3r at the OzNerf forum) which are further trimmed at the tip and tails to reduce their weight to around 1.0 grams (to match the modded Retaliator power) then glued to the foam, with an additional piece of padding at the tip for safety.

      There are many ways to customize foam darts for better balance and accuracy... if you don't have access to custom silicone tips, you can also try other methods like using rubber sticks as tip weight, as shown in my guides:

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/08/custom-calibrated-foam-darts-conversion.html

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/10/custom-weighted-foam-dart-tip-seal.html

      Its all a matter of testing various combinations and finding the best setup to suit your specific modded blasters.

      Delete
  10. SG Nerf, sorry if this is out of topic but... how can you remove the stampede breech return spring (The Black spring) because im trying to manual prime my stampede,
    Thanks :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DarkSonarch,

      Just pry the flat end of the spring coil around the bolt tip, then turn the spring to rotate it away from the bolt.

      Similar to how you remove a key from a keychain ring.

      Delete
  11. In my retaliator I solved some of the dead space issue by partially sanding down the lip on the plunger face. It is now hitting ranges of 100ft+ with stock Elite darts and the stock spring. You can view the mod guide on the GriffinMods YouTube channel. I also would like to say that I believe you are one of the best moders in the field today! Especially your work with brass. I have personally replicated several of your breeches and have achieved outstanding results with every one of them. Thank you so much for your contributions to our craft!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hello, about your springs. I am on the US, the total cost to ship is only $11, where does the spring ship from, as that seems rather cheap if you are selling a batch you have overseas. Also, any window of how long it will take to arive in the US? I just like to know a bit mroe about the vendor I am dealing with haha.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seprest,

      The springs are shipped from Singapore (where i'm located). :)

      It'll usually take around 7-10 working days to ship to USA.

      Btw the postage and packaging will be the same even if more springs are ordered (additional springs don't add much to the postage), so it's worth ordering a few at one go.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for the quick reply, 3 springs ordered!
      (LHansen)

      Delete
  13. Hi sgnerf. I managed to get myself a retaliator :D .. can u send the 8kg spring to Malaysia?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cikajid,

      Yes, i can send to Malaysia too, just click the "Add to Cart" PayPal button and place your order.

      Delete
  14. Hi sgnerf, how do i order the rampage aftermarket pring from you? which link should i go to??thanks..=)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ed the smurf,

      Just click the "Add to Cart" PayPal button at the bottom of my Mod Guide and then place your order.

      Delete
  15. Thnks man..i just did exactly that...hope it arrives soon..hw far did the rampage go after u modded the ar and the spring?abit out of tiuch but whats the official release date for the elite locally?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Edwin Tong,

      With the same mods done, the Rampage achieved similar ranges as the modded Retaliator.

      Hasbro Singapore mentioned that the Elite blasters should be available at local dept stores in Singapore from September 2012 onwards... so its just in a few weeks time.

      Delete
  16. Anyway to get it straight from you? The shipping is pretty high, I stay in Singapore too :/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      You can check my sales thread at the NerfSG forum:

      http://nerfsg.freeforums.org/blasters-mod-upgrade-kits-t999.html#p22477

      Just send me a message at the forum to arrange.

      Delete
  17. Sgnerf, I guess you don't ship to the US? If not, is there a spring I can get else where that would work. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Yes, i ship to USA too... just click the "Add to Cart" PayPal button at the bottom of my Mod Guide and then place your order (the shipping cost will be automatically added in the order cart).

      Delete
    2. Sorry for asking a repetitive question... Thank you.

      Delete
  18. I'm to worried that I'll break something while removing the air restrictor ( I'm pretty new to modding), what do you think the range would be with just the spring replacement using the spring that you sell?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      If you leave the AR intact but just replace the spring, you'll still see 20-30% range improvement... the air flow is still restricted so its not as much as with full modding done, but there is still noticeable improvement.

      Delete
  19. Great work as always SG Nerf. Have you noticed any strain on the Rampage's metal priming bar as a result of replacing the spring?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IrishMonk,

      So far from my tests, the 8kg load aftermarket springs that i used has worked well in my modded Rampage units... after going though more than 300+ shots on each of them in various Nerf games, still no signs of any stress or breakage in the metal priming bar or bolt sled.

      Delete
  20. I only used a spring removed from a Nerf Shotgun + a 1/4 of the original spring, took out the AR and with the extra uncompressed spring length, there was still use of the bolt and trigger locks.

    and for fun I added a red laser sight :D

    ReplyDelete
  21. I was wondering how long the foregrip (the grip itself, not including the rectangular tac rail connector) is?

    I'm planning on attaching the foregrip to the side of the priming slide once I get a Retaliator for easier and faster priming, and if it's longer, than I'm going to cut it down some. I'm using a Recon to plan this out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joey,

      The foregrip is approx. 9.2cm in length (excluding the orange block area) or approx. 11.3cm in length (including the orange block area but excluding the actual tactical rail clips).

      Delete
  22. Would the Nerf Jolt spring fit in the Retaliator? I know it sounds silly, but i don't have any N-Strike Elite blasters yet.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Well, the Jolt stock spring could fit in the Retaliator plunger, but its only 60% the original length of the Retaliator's spring, abit too short... so its overall performance would be limited.

      Delete
  23. Do you have or plan on doing a guide for making custom Elite Darts or custom darts that will work with the Retaliator with only the AR removed?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ronnie,

      The calibrated foam darts i used in this guide are based on custom made silicone tips (trimmed to 1.0gram tip weight) glued to normal streamline foam.

      The silicone tips were sourced from inform3r at the OzNerf forum.

      You can also check out a calibrated foam dart conversion guide that i posted a while back (it uses eraser sticks as tip weight):

      http://www.modworks.blogspot.com/2010/08/custom-calibrated-foam-darts-conversion.html

      Delete
  24. Hey SG, great guide as always, earlier you mentioned a brass breach guide, can we expect to see that anytime soon?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Well, the brass breech that i've done on my Retaliator unit was based upon the same modding methods as shown in my Recon brass breech guide:

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide.html

      I'm currently developing and testing alternative (and easier) methods to create air-tight breeches for these blasters.

      Once i complete successful tests on the new brass breech designs, i will post up a new guide for it. :)

      Delete
  25. one question im going to hammer out the ar what kind of screwdriver should i use flat head or philips head?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. New to modding,

      Both types of screwdriver tips are usable too, they both perform the same when used to do AR removal.

      Delete
  26. thanks for the reply :)

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi SGN, a few questions about the Retaliator post-modding (AR removed, 8kg spring):

    Is it normal for:
    1) The slide being very difficult to lock back at the last few mm
    2) Following lock removal, the slide will rattle slightly when the retaliator is shaken?

    Thanks in advance!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      With a heavier spring, its common for the priming action to require abit more effort at the last few mm to catch, this is because that's where the overall load is at its highest (it also depends on user strength too).

      The recommended technique to prime blasters with heavier spring loads is to just pull back the bolt quickly and confidently.

      Yes, with the bolt lock removed, the priming slide isn't locked in anymore, hence it'll tend to rattle abit.

      Delete
  28. The ranges look impressive. I'm hoping that if they release an Elite sniper rifle-type blaster, they'll still achieve 75ft stock but with lots and lots of room for improvement.

    ...one can only dream.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hear the NERF Centurion is going to achieve 100ft :)

      Delete
  29. Does anyone know if it'd be possible to make a slam-fire mod for this blaster?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Vincent Veak,

      You could try the Recon Slam-Fire Mod idea by hamoidar posted at the NerfHaven forum (the Recon and Retaliator have similar trigger mechanism designs):

      http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21791

      Note that the mod requires abit of cutting of the parts and casing... and the blaster would not be able to single-fire anymore, only slam-fire.

      Delete
    2. can't we combine strongarm mechanisms to accomplish both single fire&slamfire?

      Delete
  30. Hey SG,
    is the breech mod similar to the one you did with the Stampede?
    I was wondering if you could make a tut for a Elite Streamline-compatible breech for the Retaliator...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      If you are referring to the brass breech mod, its based on my Recon Brass Breech design (as they both share similar bolt system designs):

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide.html

      Just tweak the measurements to align and fit.

      Btw, the Stampede uses a different bolt layout and mechanism (it does not use a bolt sled) so its brass breech design is different.

      Delete
  31. That was me on Sept., 6th...
    Oh yeah, forgot about that. I mentioned the Stampede instead of the Recon because it is direct plunger as well - I thought that difference mattered;)

    I've modded a lot of stuff, but have never done a brass breech before - guess now is the time, thanks, SG.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Is it possible to use the tube cutter method to remove the AR's?

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I guess it should be possible, just have to estimate the position and don't cut too deep. Do update if you manage to successfully remove the ARs using that method. :)

      Delete
  33. Anyone know anybody selling Custom 1.0gram silicon tipped darts that are compatible with the Retaliator? I don't really have the time or honestly craftsmanship to make them myself. If you're willing to make them please let me know prices with shipping to the Us. You can email me at koollaid@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown,

      You can check with hanzo at the NerfSG forum, he supplies foam and silicone tips, and he could also supply you with ready-made silicone tipped foam darts too.

      Here is his trading thread:

      http://nerfsg.freeforums.org/hanzo-blastersmith-sale-all-price-lowered-t576.html#p6146

      Delete
  34. I know I'm kind of late on this post
    However, I was wondering, why didn't you use the pipe cutter method to remove the AR?
    I prefer that method, and from what I've seen in your posts, so do
    So why didn't you use the pipe cutter method for this AR removal? Is the bolt different? Will it not work with the bolt cutter method?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Although the pipe cutter method can work to remove ARs too (just have to be careful to cut at the right position and not too deep)... nowadays i prefer to just show a simpler and quicker method which is more accessible to all modders.

      From modder feedback over the years, i've found that alot of people don't have access to pipe cutters, but the majority have at least a screwdriver and hammer, so those are common tools that are easy and accessible for everyone to use. :)

      Delete
  35. Hi SGN!

    I've purchased your spring and modded my retaliator according to your guide in addition i added some hot glue to the hollows of the plungerhead to seal of some deadspace, the retaliator is now a superb secondary weapon!

    I've also made glue dome darts using the eraser calibration method like yours and it works great, however i've now encountered a problem whereby when using the "stefans" as i prime forward the "handle" the dart gets pushed right out of the barrel, when using stock dart there is no issues however using glue dome head rounds of all length the rds have a tendency to just pop right out of the barrel when the priming, even before pulling the trigger. Do you have any idea how i could resolve this? =(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Justin,

      Check that the dart blocker paddle is working well, make sure its springs and mechanisms are position properly in the casing (not popped out or mis-aligned).

      If you are using normal length foam darts with those glue domes, check that they are didn't end up too long, as that might cause them to push past the dart blocker paddle during the chambering process.

      If you are using short length "stefans", then they might not be chambering in the bolt and instead just get pushed forward loosely, totally missing the dart blocker paddle 'cos it opens before those short length stefans reach them.

      Btw, note that short length stefans are meant to work optimally in sealed breech systems (ie. brass breech or manually loaded turret barrels), they don't work well in normal breech systems.

      Delete
  36. Hi SGN!

    Thanks for the advises! I managed to go thru the blaster's internal again and have resolved the problem by changing the dart block paddle's spring to a harder spring from one of the locks stretched to fit. Everything works fine now even with 1 inch stefans.

    Thanks for the tips and please keep this wonderful blog going!! p.s i will probably be ordering more springs from ya soon =D

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hi SGN,
    I was wondering about a problem I have with my modded Retaliator. (AR removed + 8kg spring). It was unable to catch despite having pulled the slide quickly and firmly, and I have checked the bolt, bolt sled, and plunger for defects - so far, I've seen none. I have also removed all the locks as shown.

    Could it be due to the spring? (mine was purchased from BT) Because I see shavings coming from the plunger where the spring was mounted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      In some particular blaster units, the catch piece or plunger head might be slight offset abit (due to manufacturing variations) and that might cause difficulty in catching when modded.

      Try installing a stronger catch spring or add another catch spring, that usually helps solve the issue.

      These aftermarket springs have been installed in hundreds of blasters so far without issue, just that a small percentage of units might need some additional tweaking to work properly.

      Btw, the plastic shavings are due to the tighter fit of the spring on the plunger rod (its just abit of excess plastic being rubbed off), its not a cause of any issues 'cos as it compresses it naturally widens slightly to enable a smooth priming action.

      Delete
    2. Hey SG Nerf, I was wondering since you say dry firing doesn't have as worse effects as it does on Reverse Plunger blasters, is the AR removed Rampage semi- "ok" to dry fire too? Or does it mean the plungers are only similar and the same doesn't go for the rampage(the buffer zone statement in the guide)?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      Its still not advisable to dry fire an AR removed Rampage, as that will still introduce added stress between the parts... but if you accidentally dry fire it, the impacts are absorbed by the o-ring and overall structure (so the potential damage is reduced). There is no direct plastic-to-plastic impact (with loud cracking sound) like in reverse plunger blasters.

      Delete
  38. Earlier you mentioned "alternative (and easier) methods to create air-tight breeches", will you post these soon?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I've tried out a few different designs, but so far none have been as reliable and effective as the current brass breech design.

      If you're keen, i did post one of the new trial designs that i was testing a while back at the NerfSG Facebook group for modder reference:

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=168276633308874&set=o.108918250089&type=3&theater

      Unfortunately, it doesn't work as well as the original brass breech design, so not a usable method in its current iteration.

      Delete
  39. Hi SGN,

    Your MOD Guide was excellent!

    But I have a question. When i prime forward the "handle" the dart gets pushed right out of the barrel (like a misfire) And it happens all the time.
    Modded exactly as yours.

    Any solutions?

    Thanks mate!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Check that the dart paddle blocker and pop-up blocker tooth assembly (the mechanisms in front of the clip well), are working properly. The parts there should not be stuck and the tiny springs that operate them should not be popped out or bent.

      Sometimes those mechanism parts get mis-aligned during the modding process, which causes the foam darts not to be blocked and chambered back into the bolt, so the foam darts just get pushed loosely into the faux barrel instead.

      Delete
  40. Hey I was wondering if some stronger catch springs I have that fit nicely in the recon and raider would work well in the rampage or retaliator?

    Basically are the raider and rampage catch springs the same size?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. adam,

      Yes, they are around the same dimensions... most N-Strike blaster catch springs are similar size.

      Delete
  41. can we stretch the aftermarket spring to the same length of the stock one? So we don't need to remove the locks. And if AR is removed, must we put plunger padding?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Its possible (if you have the strength or tools to stretch the heavier load aftermarket springs)... but its usually not advisable to stretch main springs as they still tend to revert back to their original lengths over time, and in some cases weakens or warps them out of shape.

      As for plunger padding, the plunger head in Elite blasters don't come into contact with the bolt (it just stops in the narrowed space before the bolt, so the o-ring is what absorbs the forces), so plunger padding isn't usable.

      You could install a thicker padding to bridge the gap, but that will also prevent the bolt from being pulled back completely, causing issues with the breech opening and loading.

      Btw, removal of the locks is recommended nowadays because it allows users to safely de-prime the blaster under controlled load anytime, this practice helps to prevent accidental dry firing and eliminates the need to reload and fire a shot whenever the modded blaster plunger system needs to be un-primed.

      Delete
  42. SG Nerf, is a slam-fire mod possible with the retaliator?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      By default in original stock condition, the Retaliator doesn't have the slam-fire feature.

      But its possible to mod it to get that feature, check this modding thread:

      http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21791

      Unfortunately after that mod is done, it will only be able to slam-fire, cannot single fire anymore.

      Delete
  43. Can you do a retaliator brass breech mod guide?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      You can just follow my Recon "Brass Breech" Mod Guide for design reference:

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide.html

      The concept and modding process is similar, just adjust the measurements to fit.

      Delete
  44. After removing the AR and using the spring ordered from you, I found one major problem. The spring makes it not catch sometimes, which is ok, pull back again a little harder and it catches. The problem with this is that the darts tend to get sucked inside where the air restrictor was before and the next dart starts to come up causing a jam. Is there any known way to prevent the darts from sucking inside the breach or make it a little easier to catch?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hampsterblade,

      The aftermarket spring is much heavier load, so you'll definitely need to pull it back with more strength for it to catch.

      Some users initially only pull it back 80-90% of the way before they run out of strength and that results in the plunger not catching. It does need some extra strength and practice to get used to priming it properly. :)

      As for the foam darts getting drawn further into the bolt during the chambering process, so far i've not experienced that before... maybe the plunger seal in your particular unit is somehow abit too tight? So it creates a vacuum effect which causes that issue? Perhaps you could try changing the o-ring to a slightly thinner version to reduce that effect.

      Delete
  45. Hey sgn, is it possible for you to make a brass breech mod guide for retaliator? Many thanks. ^^,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      You can check my Recon Brass Breech Mod Guide for reference on the process:

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide.html

      I've no plans to do up a separate guide for the Retaliator because it's basically be the same process.

      As you build it, just adjust the brass and parts measurements accordingly to fit the Retaliator.

      Delete
  46. Hi, sgN. After modding, (removing AR) blaster make louder noise for every shot.. Any idea how to make the blaster more silent.? Thz...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      You can try stuffing sound/acoustic insulation foam into the empty internal spaces of the casing, that can help absorb abit of the noise.

      Delete
  47. Dear sgn,
    I bought an aftermarket spring from black tactical for my retaliator, but the gun wont prime once i replaced the stock spring with the aftermarket spring. I also tried removing some of the plastic in an attempt to create more space for the spring but it didnt work. Any suggestions on what i should do?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. nick teo,

      As mentioned in my mod guide, with a shorter aftermarket spring, you have to remove the bolt locks or else the bolt will get stuck during usage.

      Btw, since you got the spring from Black Tactical, you should have checked with them on how to use it properly.

      Delete
  48. Sorry dumb question, but what is the bolt lock? is that the White square like thing near the back of the plunger? near where you see the spring in the first pick

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Please check the section in my Mod Guide called "Locks Removal", all the info and photos are posted there.

      Delete
  49. Hi, sgnerf.. my blaster done with modding.. now another question... how about the barrel, any modding needed to increase accuracy..?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Well, some people report slightly better accuracy with the stock front barrel attachment on (though it also tends to reduce ranges), that is likely because the foam dart bumps against the barrel walls and gets guided along momentarily.

      For stock breech systems, accuracy still depends mainly on the foam darts used. Properly calibrated and matched foam darts make a huge difference in accuracy and consistency.

      You could also look at brass breeching your Retaliator too (though that mod would require alot more modding work and materials), it would add both range and accuracy, due to the air being able to propel the foam dart in a straight path from the breech to the barrel and all the way out.

      Delete
  50. For removing the AR with pipe cutters, how should you knock out the pin?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      If you are referring to the metal pin holding the bolt to the bolt sled, you can use a precision screwdriver and a hammer, then just carefully tap it out.

      Delete
  51. SG Nerf,

    When you said "Elite foam darts can achieve similar ranges too, but . . . their results are less consistent."

    From your experience, how much less consistent are they? Are they so inconsistent that their use is completely impractical?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Naturalman_7,

      Quite alot less consistent, the Elite foam darts still swerve and curve in flight... especially when fired from modded blasters, at mid-to-longer ranges its almost impossible to reliably tag even a stationary target or player.

      Just try firing them out of modded blasters and you will see how inconsistently they perform.

      Delete
    2. SG Nerf,

      I know your customized, calibrated full-length darts performed exceptionally well, but do you think there would be a way to get close to similar results with using modified eraser/elite darts?

      Delete
    3. Naturalman_7,

      You could try calibrating them with different tip weights, like in my foam darts customization guides:

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/08/custom-calibrated-foam-darts-conversion.html

      http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/10/custom-weighted-foam-dart-tip-seal.html

      The key is to adjust the tip weight to match the blaster power and get an optimal balance.

      Delete
  52. SG Nerf,

    I think I will try the first method to see how it works.

    You used 1g tips, so I'll try making up the difference from the original elite dart head.

    Did you worry at all about the weight of the foam (.25g)?

    Last question/comment, do you think I could keep the original elite dart head and just add a section of eraser to make the total head weigh 1g?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Naturalman_7,

      I don't usually count in the foam weight 'cos it's quite negligible... i focus more on testing the tip weights as thats what affects the overall balance.

      The original Elite foam dart tips are actually close to 1 gram too, but the weight is not fully forward as there is still some space within the tip (there is an air pocket to absorb impacts).

      Most of the time when customizing foam darts, the objective is to shift the tip weight as far forward as possible to help create optimal balance and performance.

      Delete
    2. SG Nerf,

      The not forward weight is what I was afraid of.

      In conjuction with the previous options,
      do you think your custom calibrated foam darts would work with a 1g eraser insert and a McMaster (from the US) Adhesive-Back Bumper Felt, 1/2" Diameter, 1/8" Height ontop would work well enough?

      Delete
    3. Naturalman_7,

      It should work, just test various configurations with your modded blasters to find what works well for your setups.

      Delete
  53. Thank you so much for this guide. You are amazing! But there are problems, after i removed the lock and AR when i want to cock it it is not smooth like when you wanna push it forward it will be stuck and require more force to push it forward. It goes the same for when you pull back to shoot another dart. Is it normal? Can you advice? Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. El Raffe,

      The priming and chambering movement should be smooth and unrestricted, especially after AR and lock removal.

      It sounds like something is mis-aligned inside your unit, i guess you'll have to open it up and check that all the parts are aligned and positioned properly.

      Delete
  54. Hey SGNerf,
    I was wondering if you could just DRILL out the air rsstrictors. It'd be way easier for me. Someone might have asked this already, but I didnt want to check out all the comments.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Yes, the ARs can be drilled out too, same technique like with the older blasters.

      Delete
  55. SG Nerf, I cant seem to find the bolt locks. Help!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      As shown in my guide, the Retaliator's bolt lock parts are situated at the back section under the bolt sled... you need to remove the machine screws there to detach the parts.

      For the Rampage, it's bolt locks are situated at the left side of the casing (near the clip well).

      Delete
  56. hey sgnerf,

    i wondered if you can use the retaliator plunger system in the longstrike. is that possible?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Both blasters have different mounting points and parts, so you'll have to mod the internals to retrofit the parts.

      For some ideas, here is a reference guide which shows a Retaliator direct plunger system retrofit into a Recon:

      http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22849

      Delete
  57. Hey SG Nerf, though this may not be directly related to this topic, but I stumbled upon this in the Black Tactical forums. http://black-technology.com/forum/modeling-tutorials/adding-buttstock-to-nerf/msg93061/#msg93061

    How do they attach accessories onto the tactical rails without the XRA rail converter? And how do they attach completely different barrels and buttstocks to them? Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi SG Nerf, I'm the anonymous above, is there any way to attach a Retaliator barrel to the Rampage? Would it be practical?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous,

      I guess most of the time modders just directly glue the barrels on, or sometimes they use pipe couplers to custom make barrel adapter parts (for detachable options). I personally don't do such "cosmetic" mods though (i'd rather focus on mods which actually improve performance instead), so its best to check with those modders to find out how exactly they did it.

      As for attaching a Retaliator barrel to the Rampage, you could just glue it on, though i think that would make the Rampage unnecessarily long and cumbersome to handle... in addition, longer faux barrels in blasters with stock breeches (unlike modded sealed breech systems) will tend to result in reduced ranges due to the foam darts bumping against the additional barrel walls and losing more velocity.

      Delete
    3. Haha thanks! Great site!

      Delete
    4. Btw, do you have any idea how to change the Rampage's foregrip to a shotgun grip? Thanks :P

      Delete
    5. Anonymous,

      You can get some ideas from this Rampage shotgun grip guide by Darthrambo at the NM&R site:

      http://www.nerfmodsreviews.com/2012/10/rampage-shotgun-pump.html

      Delete
  58. how do you open a retaliator?

    ReplyDelete
  59. This may have been addressed, but when you say "the back of the bolt," are you saying to hammer from the back, or hammer it from the front and have it come out the back? I'm assuming the front is the left picture of the bolt and the back is the right.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Yes, i meant hammer out the AR from the back, its easier from that direction... its also possible to hammer it out from the front, but there is a plastic stalk in the front section that tends to obstruct the process, so it's abit more tricky to do it that way.

      Delete
  60. Hey SG,

    I am having a problem with the aftermarket spring I ordered from you.

    When I pull back on the primer it is not catching to cock the gun for fire.

    I put the stock spring back in and it is having no problems at all.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks.

    Daniel Clare

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DanielC,

      Okay, your particular Retaliator unit probably has a slightly weaker catch spring or catch parts which are slightly off alignment from the factory (it depends on luck i guess), or they might be worn out after some usage, so with the stronger spring the system is not as secure enough to catch properly.

      What you can do is use a stronger catch spring, or add another small spring to increase the catch spring load (you can try adding those small springs from retractable ball point pens), usually that helps to solve the catch issue.

      Delete
    2. SG,

      Just wanted to update you. I purchased the Unleashed kit from Orange Mod for the Retaliator. I figured I would go ahead and invest a little more in parts to help my blaster last longer. It shoots fine. Looking into Xplorer now for other possible modifications.

      Delete
  61. Thanks. I am not well versed in where certain springs are and such. Where is the catch spring? Sorry for the noob question.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DanielC,

      No probs... the catch spring is found at the catch mechanism (the white plastic hoop piece) situated behind the plunger tube, its the part that can move up and down, which is what "catches" onto the plunger rod when its primed.

      Delete
  62. Got it. Thanks! I have one more question apart from the topic thread. Do you have any recommendations of where I may find the iron sight that comes with the Longstrike? I have searched to the best of my ability but have had no luck short of buying the gun itself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DanielC,

      I guess you could check on eBay or the various Nerf forums, try to find others who may have spare Longstrike sights for sale separately.

      Delete
  63. i just had a thought; seeing as the recon and longstrike were almost identical internally, how hard would it be to transplant the retaliator into a longstrike shell? if that doesn't work, i guess we'd have to wait for an elite longstrike to be announced :/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Keil Fleischbein,

      You can refer to this Retaliator to Recon internals transplant mod by Solscud007 posted at the NerfHaven forum:

      http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22849

      I guess the procedure could apply to the Longstrike too.

      Delete
    2. thanks! i love the feel of the longstrike, but it's pathetic mod potential ruins it. hopefully the retaliator's internals will work well enough :)

      Delete
  64. Do they ship the springs to US?
    Thus in US where can I find these
    springs or call as?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Yes, the aftermarket springs can be shipped internationally. Just click on the PayPal button to place your order.

      The international postage and packaging is set at a flat USD$5.00 for each order... so you could order more springs at one go and the postage cost will still be the same (saves costs). :)

      Delete
  65. Hey, just wondering have there been any reports of broken direct plunger systems when you have taken out the ar?? i just dont want to break it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      It depends on the spring load and how its used (ie. if the user dry fire it often or use springs which are too strong)... and luck.

      If you are not keen to fix it or cannot afford to buy another blaster if it breaks... then its best not to mod it, as parts will always naturally wear out eventually once a blaster is modded. :)

      Delete
  66. SGnerf, i just recieved your springs last week, and when i put it in my retaliator, firstly i noticed it is A LOT shorter than the stock, or the 5kg spring i have from OMW, upon testing, it is also a lot less effective than the 5kg spring, i believe this is due to the wasted spring travel distance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Yes, the spring is shorter for added reliability... i have tested longer springs and had the opportunity to personally install them on 30+ Retaliators (it was for a Nerf tournament project), but soon discovered that some of the units seem to jam more often with the longer springs (probably due to the variations in internal parts molding between certain production batches), but they all didn't have any issues when swapped back to using the shorter springs.

      Hence i decided to only making the shorter ones available for the sake of reliability, as there seems to be a percentage of blaster units which have issues with the longer versions.

      In addition, i've tested both the longer and shorter springs and the performance differences were not quantifiable (+/- a few feet isn't considered significant enough). This is most likely because in the stock breech system, the foam dart already leaves the bolt before the plunger completes its forward movement, hence the full spring travel isn't as necessary.

      The shorter springs also tends to reduce stress on the parts, as the plunger is allowed leeway to buffer behind the air pressure built up behind the foam dart.

      In comparison, i found that with the longer springs, the plastic supports holding the plunger tube tend to break after some use due to the constant slamming of the plunger rod into the front of the plunger tube.

      Hope that helps to explain the preference and design behind the shorter springs. :)

      Delete
    2. Is it possible to get one of your longer 8 kg springs? I use a sealed breech in a direct plunger longstrike, but neither omw 5 kg or the xplorer spring have very much power in a sealed breech. I used a custom 8 kg spring that was the same length as stock and got a good 190 fps, but the spring was slightly too wide and jammed often. The 5 kg spring barely got 110 fps. If I could get the longer version of your spring I would be very content.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      I don't keep any of the longer versions of the 8kg springs, therefore have none available to spare. I only stock the current shorter versions as those are the most reliable ones.

      Delete
  67. Do you happen to live in BB West av 5 by any chance? That carpark looks awfully familiar.

    ReplyDelete
  68. I bought a used retaliator and the slide jams at about halfway. I took it apart but am having trouble determining what is causing the jam. Something in the internals doesn't work. Any suggestions? Is this a common problem?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. nightfox431,

      That is probably due to the bolt lock or trigger lock being mis-aligned or faulty, you can try re-aligning or just removing them and the jamming issue will usually be solved.

      Delete
  69. What part, if any, have broken so far after doing these mods? I am guessing the plunger rod would break first since I see white marks of bent and warped plastic, and wanted confirmation from you since you have done this many times and would know where the first breakage usually is.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      So far for my modded units, i've not encountered any parts breakages yet (even though they are regularly used in weekly Nerf games for almost a year)... i guess the modded spring load i use is still within reasonable limits.

      Other modders who use even stronger springs would probably experience higher chances of parts breakage. Only time will tell when the parts will eventually wear out naturally though.

      I have also seen other modders stress test their modded units by dry firing them hundreds of times continuously (ie. firing without any foam darts loaded, which causes high impact stress on the parts), and the part that breaks is actually the internal casing support groove that the plunger tube aligns into... seems the majority of impact stress tend to get repeatedly transferred to that part.

      Even though there is an original small rubber bumper piece already in that support groove, the impact forces can still weaken that section over time.

      So one of the fixes is to reinforce and bulk up the end of the support groove with epoxy putty.

      Delete
  70. Hey , i've modded my retaliator following the instructions above. I have an issue whereby my dart will fall off when my gun is pointing downwards. Is it normal ? If it is not, any solution to fix this ? Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      If the foam dart drops out that when the barrel is pointed downwards, most likely the dart blocker gate (the mechanism in front of the bolt which pops up and down during priming) is not working properly, it could be due to the blocker mechanism spring popping out or getting bent, this results in the foam dart not being pushed back into the bolt securely enough, so it just sits loosely.

      Remove the clip, then try priming the blaster a few times while looking through the barrel, you should see a plastic piece moving up and down in sync with the priming movement.

      If not, then you'll have to open up the casing and fix it until it works properly.

      Delete
  71. Hey I noticed you left behind some of the ar and you had to glue it to keep it from rattling. Wouldn't it be easier just to use a drill bit that's fits inside of the bolt to drill the entire ar out? And wouldnt that allow more air to pass through?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      The hammer and screwdriver method i showed is just one of many ways to remove the AR, its mainly to demonstrate a simple way for most modders who may not have access to a power drill.

      Using a power drill is definitely easier, though you just have to be careful not to crack the plunger tube plastic in the process and not let the resulting plastic dust clog up the seal.

      As for creating a larger hole in the AR, i've done it before with a power drill too, but didn't see any significant difference in performance... i guess as long as the AR is removed and there is an unobstructed path, the air flow is more than sufficient.

      Delete
  72. Hi, do you know where can i purchase a chrony in sg? Any helps much appreciated =)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I've not seen any of those available locally so far... btw, i ordered my F1 Shooting Chrony set in from Amazon.

      Delete
  73. Thanks for the mod guide- I have one of the springs you sold at first and was looking to buy more. Are you not selling the springs anymore?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I've run out of stock of the springs at the moment, so the order link is temporarily removed.

      I'm currently in the midst of custom making more springs, so once they are ready the order link will be posted back up again. :)

      Delete
    2. Anonymous,

      The springs are back in stock again... they can be ordered now. :)

      Delete
  74. i want to buy that after market 8 kg load spring but i live in australia and i cant find the place to make an account in the website you sent me all im asking is that if you buy it will the spring be delivered to me at my exact location?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Emmanuel Campisi,

      Just click on the "Add to Cart" button to place your order.

      You will just need to register for a PayPal account beforehand, here is their website:

      https://www.paypal.com

      Delete
    2. thank you :) my fully modded retaliator with orange mod works stage 1,2&3 kits with the 8 kg spring will be amazing if only the retaliator would have slam fire then it would be a powerful blaster

      Delete
  75. Hey, I just fixed the ar and everything is good, however, when i out the other side on, it doesn't atatch! The mist pressure is at the beginning if the plunger tube. A quick response is appreciated, in a school beef war.

    ReplyDelete